February 15th, 2012
03:56 PM ET

Jamal Simmons: It will be 'bedlam in the Republican Party' if Romney fails to win Michigan

It was supposed to be one state Mitt Romney didn't have to worry about: Michigan. After all, Romney grew up here, and his father was an auto executive and governor.

But the script has changed, with Romney's hold on Michigan–and the GOP nomination–under assault from a resurgent Rick Santorum. "It is going to be bedlam in the Republican Party if he can't win Michigan," Democratic strategist Jamal Simmons said on CNN's Erin Burnett OutFront.

James Muffet, president of Citizens for Traditional Values, a Michigan-based group of social conservatives, told The Washington Post "it's going to be a slugfest here. We didn't think we'd matter, and now we're at the eye of the storm."

Simmons says "(Romney) has to find a way to get back to the Michigan blue collar, evangelical Republican base," though as CNN contributor John Avlon argues, any extension of the Republican nominating fight spells trouble for Romney in an eventual general election–when Romney will need to sway independent voters:

Republicans' ideological overreach since taking control of Congress has inspired a backlash among independents that Obama is now benefiting from. Even with Congress having an all-time low 11% approval rating according to CNN polls, congressional Republicans are the least popular species in the Washington swamp among independents. As a result, independent voters are open to giving Obama another look, especially when presented with the prospect of conservatives having unified control of government. But the problem is most pronounced with Romney.

CNN columnist LZ Granderson says Romney's ties to Michigan have decayed over the years. He was born here, he lived here. But he's not family. Not anymore." In a column, Granderson says Michigan may be ready to tell Romney to go away:

"He forgot about the people back home who depended on the auto industry to put food on the table, pay mortgages, send the kids to college. He greeted us like family when he needed our votes, but when he left town he treated us like strangers."

And the risk for Romney on his home turf, many believe, is extreme. As political consultant Jordan Gehrke told The Atlantic's Molly Ball, "Michigan has always been Romney's firewall...It would be a tremendous surprise if he lost the state. Even if Santorum gets within a few points...the whole premise of [Romney's] electability starts to crack."

Related stories:

Poll: Santorum edges out Romney in Michigan.

I am a son of Detroit, Romney writes.

Filed under: Politics
soundoff (90 Responses)
  1. Punisher2000

    If the GOPers still vote for Santorum after all the garbage he expectorated lately, they deserve anything they get. May the fleas of 40,000 camels infest their armpits.

    February 28, 2012 at 5:12 pm | Reply
  2. JC in West

    As long as we are confusing delusion with prediction and wishing with reality, here's my What If:

    What If: Obama/Huntsman 2012

    February 28, 2012 at 3:11 am | Reply
  3. ingyandbert

    What do you mean "GOING TO BE bedlam"? It's been bedlam this whole time.

    February 18, 2012 at 8:42 pm | Reply
  4. what esle is new

    It is way too early for the Dems to be counting thier chickens. This race is far from over.

    February 16, 2012 at 1:16 pm | Reply
  5. Me

    I love it. Whatever Romney or Santorum has to say to win what is turning out to be an ultra right-wing primary, will come back to bite him in the general election. Obama is licking his chops!

    February 16, 2012 at 9:47 am | Reply
  6. Jeff

    This extended primary is bad for republicans. It was bad 4 years ago for democrats and Obama. He was vulnerable to a solid republican challenger. The only reason he won was because McCain sabotaged his candidacy by selecting the one person who could sink his chances and forever poison the republican party. Palin's stain is still bringing down the party and will result in another Obama term.

    February 16, 2012 at 9:11 am | Reply
  7. James

    For once they Tell the truth. Wow. He'S from Michigan She's from Michigan wouldn't like to be a pepper too. They all suck....RON PAUL 2012.

    February 16, 2012 at 9:09 am | Reply
  8. Jeb

    CNN asks a democratic strategist to define what it will mean for republicans if romney loses a primary? Really CNN? Why not just get James Carville to do it? At least someone's heard of him.

    February 16, 2012 at 9:08 am | Reply
  9. Carl

    "Bedlam in the Republican party"! LOL! It will Bedlam in the media perhaps, because things aren't working out according to their "superior" views. No, it won't be Bedlam. It will be a reflection of a free people exercising free willl to decide for themselves who they wish to put up as the Republican candidate for president. As for the "electability" myth, puh-LEASE! Any one of the many, many candidates that initially put their hat in the ring at the beginning of the campaign season would easily defeat what is arguably the worst president ever. I have a potted plant that could beat the current idiot occupying the white house, even on a write-in balllot!

    February 16, 2012 at 9:06 am | Reply
    • JC in West

      Ridiculous statement. Latest polls show Obama winning each and every head to head match-up. You don't belong to the majority and don't want to believe what the majority are saying.

      February 28, 2012 at 3:04 am | Reply
  10. floyd from Illinois

    Most of the comments on this article indicate that the Republicans are in serious disarray and will likely remain so throughout this election cycle, failing to win back the Presidency and probably losing ground in Congress as well.

    That much is obvious.

    What gets interesting is that none of the Republicans are even trying to look at the root causes of their disarray. I can sum it up for you in one sentence – "You don't have a coherent message, and what message you do have, most people (read: 'voters') don't like."

    February 16, 2012 at 9:06 am | Reply
  11. RealityBlowz

    Living here in Michigan, I can tell you why we don't want Romney. We have seen our cars construction changing from steel to plastic. We don't want to see our president to become plastic (fake) also. Ron Paul gets my support.

    February 16, 2012 at 8:53 am | Reply
  12. Dennis

    ELECTILE DYSFUNCTION: the inability to become aroused over any of the choices for President put forth by the Republican party in the 2012 election year

    February 16, 2012 at 8:53 am | Reply
    • John N. Seattle, WA

      You sir, are awarded +10 internets!

      February 16, 2012 at 11:05 am | Reply
  13. Sam

    WAS he born there??? Sure, he says he was, but has anyone seen his birth certificate? After all, if President Obama has to prove he is a citizen, Republican candidates should have to prove it, too. Romney's father was born in Mexico, and the family had a home in Ontario, Canada. Who's to say he's a natural born citizen of the United States? Maybe Michiganders know something the rest of us don't, and simply don't want to vote for a Canuck.

    February 16, 2012 at 8:36 am | Reply
    • James

      yea, and our last hopeless governor, Grandholm, was from CANADA. What is this, the foreigners' JackPot. We are so dumb in this state we'll hire anyone to oversee us.

      February 16, 2012 at 9:13 am | Reply
  14. Silence

    I don't know about the other lost sheep out there but I'm looking for my shepherd Paul.

    February 16, 2012 at 8:28 am | Reply
    • Tony

      At least you admit you're a sheep.

      February 16, 2012 at 9:08 am | Reply
  15. Jonny

    No "Bedlam." Everyone should realize all of the non-Obama sheep will be voting against him this election. It doesn't matter if Sponge Bob is running on the GOP ticket. They will vote for him. I am not saying this is a good thing, it is just the result of a horrible President dividing this nation in a way that has not been seen before. Spend, spend, tax, tax. Wake-up Obama sheep, he is slipping in more ways to get at all of your money, not just the wealthier middle class. Vote him out so we at least have a hope of stabilizing this economy and improving our lives!

    February 16, 2012 at 8:27 am | Reply
    • Chris

      Did your taxes go up? Mine didn't. Oh, and I'm a CPA and I don't see my clients' rates increasing over the last few years, either.

      February 16, 2012 at 8:58 am | Reply
    • tony

      When Obama wins, your tears will be like a spring rainstorm... so lovely, so sweet.

      February 16, 2012 at 9:09 am | Reply
    • Ed

      Taxes are the same or lower than under Bush. Bush and both houses controlled by the GOP started with a budget surplus, good employment growth, and good GDP growth. He handed Obama $5 to $6 Trillion in debt growth, rapidly accelerating unemployment, and no GDP growth. Obama has stabilized and turned around the job losses and GDP growth though they both have a long way to recoup the disaster of 8 years of GOP control. Obama has continued debt spending (starting with fiscal year 2010) at roughly the same rate Bush was in his last budget year (2009) as part of the strategy to do this.

      February 16, 2012 at 9:14 am | Reply
  16. Jt_flyer

    Now Romney want Michigan to me race him. Good luck wit all that.

    February 16, 2012 at 7:28 am | Reply
    • Jt_flyer

      *to embrace him

      February 16, 2012 at 7:29 am | Reply
      • Duh

        ... And it's "with", not "wit". "Wants", not "want". Might as well correct the rest, right?

        February 16, 2012 at 8:32 am | Reply
        • duh

          "wants" not "Wants".

          February 16, 2012 at 9:01 am | Reply
        • Carl

          Oh come now...let's leave the poor dimwit alone. He's the product of government schooling. What can you expect?

          February 16, 2012 at 9:09 am | Reply
  17. Jesus was a Space Alien

    It will b bedlam in the party if Romney wins or loses Michigan. Romney is nowhere close to being a Democrat. They would not touch him with a ten foot pole.

    February 16, 2012 at 6:52 am | Reply
  18. cnnsucks

    And we are suppose to believe this c r a p by the lib media freaks...

    February 16, 2012 at 3:02 am | Reply
    • smwesson500

      and yet you're on here, reading the liberal "propaganda", methinks you're full of "c r a p" as you delicately put it.

      February 16, 2012 at 8:28 am | Reply
  19. tony

    Time we had 5 parties, instead of the two twins.

    February 15, 2012 at 11:22 pm | Reply
    • Jimt

      absolutely. But both the GOP and Dems have made it almost impossible for another party to make a serious impact. It would take a very charismatic leader to create a new party, not an ideology.

      February 16, 2012 at 1:20 am | Reply
    • Nick

      Or better yet, no parties and everyone run as an independent on the individual issues rather than a party platform.

      February 16, 2012 at 8:58 am | Reply
  20. polycarp pio

    No one can fix America, not the current President or any future President, only God can fix America and he is in the process of doing just that, this nation is in for a dose of tough medicine, call it chemo and if this dose doesnt work the doseage will increase and you are not going to like it at all. There is a cancer in America and it is called iniquity, transgression and sin and these three types of cancer can only be cured by repentence and that repentence doesnt just mean sorry for commiting the above no it means if we have the chance to do it again we wont. PP

    February 15, 2012 at 11:13 pm | Reply
    • tony

      We did Sodom and Gomorrah already. Time for a prediction that isn't 3000 years old.

      February 15, 2012 at 11:19 pm | Reply
    • Jimt

      I would recommend that you take "judge not lest ye be judged" a little more seriously. For some reason you seem to hold yourself above people. and that is dangerous ground.

      February 16, 2012 at 1:24 am | Reply
    • cc_frank

      It's because too many people have tried to put too much religion into the political system that has created the polarized fracture of today's landscape.

      People need to stop trying to make this country a theocracy. If I want to live in a country where God is the head of state, I'll move to Vatican City. Until then, I'm a proud American and I would love a restoration of Democracy... you know... where people have control.

      February 16, 2012 at 8:25 am | Reply
    • J

      You folks may take offense at this guy's religious language. I'm not a huge fan of it myself. But let's make no mistake: history tells us that empires crumble, and they generally disintegrate from within. No reason to think that America will be any different.

      February 16, 2012 at 8:43 am | Reply
  21. Texas Coyote

    If anyone asks yet again, why the OCCUPIERS (OCCUPY is a worldwide permanent protest movement for justice and more equity for the working class) all over the United States and World are protesting. Listen up!“You control our world. You've poisoned the air we breathe, contaminated the water we drink, and copyrighted the food we eat. We fight in your wars, die for your causes, and sacrifice our freedoms to protect you. You've liquidated our savings, destroyed our middle class, and used our tax dollars to bailout your unending greed. We are slaves to your corporations, zombies to your airwaves, servants... to your decadence. You've stolen our elections, assassinated our leaders, and abolished our basic human rights as human beings. You own our property, shipped away our jobs, and shredded our unions. You've profited off of disaster, destabilized our currencies, and raised our cost of living, while lowering our wages. You've monopolized our freedom, stripped away our education and have almost extinguished our flame. Now you are trying to cripple/sabotage the internet with SOPA/PIPA type legislation, to end our ability to communicate effectively!! We are hit...we are bleeding... but we ain't got time to bleed. We will bring the giants to their knees and you will witness our revolution! WAKE UP AMERICA! SUPPORT OCCUPY!

    February 15, 2012 at 8:48 pm | Reply
    • Chuck

      Someone has got to win the election; there will not be a ballot option for "Let's just leave the Oval Office vacant for the next four years and see how that works out."

      Realistically speaking, that person will be either Obama or one of the current GOP contenders.

      So, which one would "Occupy" have us vote for?

      February 15, 2012 at 10:00 pm | Reply
    • Peter

      HEAR, HEAR!!

      February 15, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Reply
    • Tom

      You're right. We must keep citing our grievances until they are heard and acted upon. It's not supposed to be about the grooming of the wealthy and powerful, but about the health and welfare of "We The People". OCCUPY: There's no going back!!!! And a global effort makes sense, since the powerful operate at the global level.

      February 16, 2012 at 1:56 am | Reply
    • simple truth

      You know, this whole "Occupy" tirade sounds a lot like the Marxists/Communists in Russia 90 years ago. Not very impressive what they did to their own country and people–especially the 20 million they killed. They took away property, beat, imprisoned, and killed the land and factory owners, accusing them of preying on the people. As it turned out, nobody else knew how to run farms, factories, and businesses. Occupy (like the Marxist/Communists) has a terrible habit of blaming the rich for everything...most rich people became that way because they worked hard, took risks, and ended up being successful. Why don't you Occupy idiots try living without the Windows OS on your computers and the I-pod/I-phone/I-pad products since both were invented by the 1% who dared to be successful and build corporations that have benefited billions of people on this planet. And, in case you are wondering, I only make $40K/yr myself right now, but at least I realize that if I want to be successful and rich, I have that opportunity in America, but nobody is going to hand it to me for nothing.

      February 16, 2012 at 9:18 am | Reply
  22. Debby

    Romney was dead on with his statements on GM. They are in trouble yet again because they are to greedy and won't lower their car and truck prices and people are going to Ford and Chrysler.

    February 15, 2012 at 8:17 pm | Reply
    • Bill in Florida

      Then how do you explain the FACT that GM is now the world's largest automaker?

      "Let Detroit go bankrupt," Mitt Romney. EPIC FAIL.

      February 15, 2012 at 8:46 pm | Reply
      • Debby

        I just read they are dropping their retirement pensions for their employee's so they are in trouble yet again. They are number one from the bailout, but never lowered their prices it catch's up.

        February 15, 2012 at 9:34 pm | Reply
        • Peter

          We bailed them out successfully. If they self-destruct now, that can't be blamed on the bailout, for heaven's sake.

          February 15, 2012 at 10:08 pm | Reply
          • Really?

            That's like telling a cancer patient that his reoccurrence has nothing to do with his original cancer diagnosis.

            February 16, 2012 at 8:39 am | Reply
        • Wendy

          Ummm... read again, Debby. GM is not dropping their pension plans. We are just going to be receiving a portion of the money into our 401K instead of into a managed retirement plan. How does that indicate problems with GM? We're the largest manufacturer with the highest number of vehicle sales and posting record profits. If that means we're failing again, I'd love to hear what you consider a success?

          February 16, 2012 at 8:40 am | Reply
        • Michael

          Try reading the whole article next time regarding the pensions at GM. They are converting pensions for long time salaried emplyoees to a 401k style retirement plan, the same one offfered to new salaried employees of the company. Yes, it is a cost savings move. If you haven't noticed, this is how most employers offer retirement benefits, but don't let the facts get in the way of your partisan argument.

          February 16, 2012 at 8:58 am | Reply
    • ddblah

      The center piece of the bailout was not any particular company or industry. The center piece of the bailout was JOBS!

      It is irrelevant to you, I guess, unless you are just one of those unfortunately folks who were caught up by the tide wave. It was not a tide wave. It was a tsunami that was about to destroy not just one or two companies or industries. It was about to destroy the whole economy, the world economy, as we know it.

      February 15, 2012 at 9:10 pm | Reply
    • Scott

      GM's now the #1 auto-maker in the world. Claims must be supported by facts, fine sir.

      February 15, 2012 at 9:13 pm | Reply
      • Michael

        Well they just opened up a THIRD shift at the Flint MI plant. Is that FACT. enough.

        February 16, 2012 at 8:42 am | Reply
    • BillyBob

      This is what happens when girls try to talk about cars.

      February 16, 2012 at 8:24 am | Reply
    • Duh

      Never mind that CNN has an article up saying GM just posted a record annual profit for last year, lol. It's fun just making up "facts", isn't it?

      February 16, 2012 at 8:36 am | Reply
  23. lgny

    Just imagine where we would be if the Republicans had run a real leader such as Colin Powell?

    February 15, 2012 at 7:34 pm | Reply
    • Chuck

      I still think that if he were to step into the ring today, he would be President in January.

      February 15, 2012 at 7:53 pm | Reply
      • Bill in Florida

        Not at all. He'd; be demonized as a RINO within two seconds.

        February 15, 2012 at 8:47 pm | Reply
      • strikelightning

        i'm a lifelong democrat and i would vote for colin powell in a heartbeat.

        February 16, 2012 at 8:51 am | Reply
      • Manusons

        Don't think so Chuck, as much as you'd probably like him to. Remember his fate as a Repubican was sealed when he endorsed Barack Obama on 'Meet the Press.'

        February 16, 2012 at 9:30 am | Reply
    • Peter

      But they didn't, now did they?

      February 15, 2012 at 10:08 pm | Reply
  24. PeteArk

    Jamal Simmons is redundent..."bedlam" refers to an old Insane Asylum...is that not descriptive of the current republican slate of candidates ? c'mon Jamal find a better analogy like "a fire in Bedlam" or " a mass escape from...".

    February 15, 2012 at 7:23 pm | Reply
  25. babooph

    Surely there are some very good generals who could have ran -one would not have to be as gifted as IKE to do a very good job.The delusion that a govt is like a business has led the party wrongly.

    February 15, 2012 at 7:04 pm | Reply
    • Chuck

      General Colin Powell would have been a wonderful President, I think. It's a shame that the stars just didn't align for him.

      I still think that if he were to step into the ring today, he would be President in January.

      February 15, 2012 at 7:28 pm | Reply
      • Bill in Florida

        Not with the current GOP looney-bin. He's pro-choice AND he's black.

        February 15, 2012 at 8:48 pm | Reply
        • Bill in Florida

          AND he supported Barack Obama for President in 2008, while saying that Sarah Palin was not fitted to be President should something happen to McCain.

          February 15, 2012 at 9:09 pm | Reply
          • Lou

            So he was right on all counts.

            February 16, 2012 at 8:42 am | Reply
      • NoKidding

        I've lost all respect for Colin Powell when he sold out to GW Bush and got in front of the UN with drawings of "WMD" in Iraq (prior to the ijnvasion). I was shocked when I saw that. Thought he had a lot more spine than that.

        February 15, 2012 at 9:32 pm | Reply
  26. MK54

    Unlikely Romney will recover from his biggest gaffe, saying the auto industry should be left to die. From the Democratic standpoint this is a win-win. Either we get a weakened Romney or a pathetically weak Santorum running against Obama. Let the good times roll.

    February 15, 2012 at 6:44 pm | Reply
    • Chuck

      Obama will be re-elected, not because he deserves it, but because the GOP has utterly failed to field a viable candidate. November's election was the GOP's to loose, and in February, they have already lost it.

      I suspect that we will see republican control of both Senate and House and the result will be four years of petty fighting and brinksmanship.

      February 15, 2012 at 7:16 pm | Reply
      • us1776

        All the GOP-obstructionists will be voted out in 2012.

        The House and Senate will once against be majority Democratic and we can finally have a functioning government again.


        February 15, 2012 at 8:40 pm | Reply
      • Bill in Florida

        This is going to be an anti-Tea Party/GOP election the way that 2010 was anti-Democrat.

        February 15, 2012 at 9:10 pm | Reply
  27. Mi Poo

    The only reason people are even remotely considering Santorum is that he's not Romney. I would think Romney would have a better chance of winning against Obama in the general election, but I'm not a Republican. Or a religious extremist. The majority of Americans are going to be afraid of what Santorum would bring to the presidency. And the Democrats would have a field day with ads opposing him and his record. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

    February 15, 2012 at 6:40 pm | Reply
    • Chuck

      You really don't have to be too afraid of what anyone would bring to the Presidency.

      First, all newly-elected Presidents find out immediately that the world looks much different from the other side of the Resolute Desk. Obama, for example, found out that closing Gitmo, which he promised to do with a swipe of his pen within days of election, just isn't possible.

      Second, all presidential candidates in recent history has promised sweeping changes. Clinton promised a national healthcare system. Bush promised to dramatically reduce government, Obama promised a national heathcare system. No recent president has been able to accomplish more than a tiny fraction of those changes. Clinton's healthcare plans went down in flames and he ended up being the president who declared, "The era of big government is over." Bush's plans also went down in flames, literally, the flames of the World Trade Center, and he ended up presiding over the nationalization of an entire industry (airport security) and the formation of the largest new federal agency since the consolidation of the Defense Department, Homeland Security. Obama settled for a tiny fraction of the healthcare system he promised.

      The federal government is a huge ship and it's not easy or generally possible to turn it (especially in peace times) in four years or even eight. So, you really don't have to be afraid of electing even the most radical of presidents.

      February 15, 2012 at 7:23 pm | Reply
      • LarryB

        Chuck, I don't completely agree with your last sentence – think it goes a bit too far. However, you make some very good points here. Political and bureaucratic realities tend to push both right-leaning & left-leaning Presidents toward the center. Hence all of the examples of promises that haven't been kept, no matter which President you're talking about.

        February 16, 2012 at 8:52 am | Reply
      • BubbaATL

        That's exactly how I consoled myself when W was coronated the first time — but look at the horrific damage that ensued. Obama may not be all that we want, or that we hoped for, but the alternative would be a resurgent catastrophe.

        February 16, 2012 at 8:56 am | Reply
  28. nolimits3333

    Romney tied his dog to the roof of his car for a 12 hour trip. He did the same thing to the American worker when he looted American companies and shipped their jobs overseas. Obama has created 23 straight months of private sector job growth. I will be voting for Obama.

    February 15, 2012 at 6:38 pm | Reply
    • Chuck

      Obama presided over the worst recession in recent history and lost our AAA credit rating. But he will be re-elected anyway because the GOP has failed to field a viable candidate.

      February 15, 2012 at 7:25 pm | Reply
      • Bill in Florida

        Um excuse me, but it was the GOP House members who refused to compromise with the President on the debt ceiling issue. THAT is why we lost our AAA+_ credit rating.

        February 15, 2012 at 9:12 pm | Reply
        • Bill in Florida

          And, lest you forget, the Recession started ONE YEAR before Obama took office.

          February 15, 2012 at 9:13 pm | Reply
        • That was the explicit reason the U.S. lost AAA

          The crazed Republican freshmen who didn't remember what happened the last time Congress decided to shut down the government and threaten to default.

          February 20, 2012 at 3:30 am | Reply
      • NoKidding

        The whole US economy including the financial and housing markets crumbled during GW Bush last 2 years.

        February 15, 2012 at 9:36 pm | Reply
  29. jma58

    If you lived in Michigan during the Romney administration you must remember he oversaw the dismanteling of the automobile industry. Do ou remember the closing of the Silverdome and Flint was a wasteland. Do you really think Mitt will do anything different for the country. No Romney please.

    February 15, 2012 at 6:31 pm | Reply
    • LarryB

      jma58, the Silverdome wasn't even built (1974-75) until after the Romney administration ended (1969), so how can you blame him for its ultimate closure? That's like blaming Obama for the Vietnam War breaking out! And Flint was hardly a "wasteland" back in 1969. The auto industry was not doing badly back then.

      February 16, 2012 at 8:58 am | Reply
  30. us1776

    After the statements Romney made about the auto industry and Detroit, he stands no chance of winning in Michigan.

    He may as well write MI off and move on.


    February 15, 2012 at 6:21 pm | Reply
  31. Donald in CA

    If romney loses Michigan he should drop out and declare himself a democrat because he is getting no love from his own party.

    February 15, 2012 at 6:20 pm | Reply
    • lgny

      Why in the world do you think the Democrats would want him?

      February 15, 2012 at 7:32 pm | Reply
    • Chuck

      He should drop out anyway. He has not won a single decisive victory. He ekes out a few percentage points of lead, but nothing that shows broad support.

      February 15, 2012 at 7:33 pm | Reply
    • Terry

      Romney is a Closet Democrat. Checkout his voting record, and the bills he signed as governor. Good grief, the man was a registered Democrat, turned Republican. Romney is the Manchurian Candidate sent by the Democrats.

      February 15, 2012 at 10:52 pm | Reply
    • clarke

      I sure don't want him.

      February 16, 2012 at 8:52 am | Reply

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